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MrConway #1 Posted 24 May 2016 - 06:35 PM

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Please leave any general feedback regarding early access phase 4 here.

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Laegad #2 Posted 24 May 2016 - 11:27 PM

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I think game is too easy.

-> AI need to be more agressive (not only a research/food/product boost like it is done in almost all 4x.. this in not a good way to level up AI)

 

In my game, i collect too many credits, and buy too many instant build upgrade... not because i need, but only because i can.

-> I suggest you add a credit upkeep for ships.

This upkeep is not a cost linked to a planet (like all cost are), but is payed by the empire.

(i don't think it will be enought, but i'll be better)

 

In my game, i have too many command points too, but perhaps it is because i play very agressive and as AI is very passive.. mid game become boring...

Perhaps with AI more agressive i think this problem should be partially solved.

 



Preest78 #3 Posted 25 May 2016 - 05:22 AM

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Could we please have a clock showing the local time added to the interface? :)

 

Thanks,

 

Preest.

 



SierraKhaar #4 Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:15 AM

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Autosaving every 10 turns (or option able).

Putting the different saves you have in chapters, so every new game has its own "folder".

Seeing the other saves when saving a new one.

Edited by SierraKhaar, 25 May 2016 - 08:20 AM.


SierraKhaar #5 Posted 25 May 2016 - 08:52 AM

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Using hotkeys (escape enter, left/right click) to confirm or escape popupwindows etc.

BraggiMoO #6 Posted 25 May 2016 - 10:28 AM

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The old MoO 2 was by no way self-explanatory, some concepts were well hidden, like miniaturization. Concepts users worked hard for were finally memorized. Lots of information was too general or missing.

 

All that said: in your quest to communicate the game's complexity, and migrate UI and graphics to today's standards, a lot of the initial simplicity and elegance is currently lost.

 

Let's start with the obvious, map and space travel. Currently the game no longer looks like MoO, but Ascendancy, with all it's drawbacks. One thing is the excessive travel times, and being bottled up by jump lanes.

Exploration felt different. You just needed a few scouts (and maybe outposts), no small strain on a budding economy. Loosing and replacing scouts was common. Trade production capacity (more scout drones and outposts) for tech (range and speed)? No problem. The fun thing about MoO was the wide variety of possible solutions to the game's problems.

Playing a low tech race, proliferating and expanding like crazy? You could. Well, no more, because now the universe has traffic controls (red lanes) and road blocks (warp point stations). The tech unlocking red lanes comes too late for a dumb race; and circumventing the blocks also needs a lot of tech and good relations unless you want to go full hostile from the start.

Conquering the biggest galaxy pre-warp on hardest under 200 turns? Possible even without a blizzer race, because logistics is easy when almost all you need is distance to bases and speed. In Ascendancy I finally fell asleep because of length of my logistics lines. Well, maybe here jumpgates mitigate logistics and reinforcements later, but I doubt it's any improvement.

 

Global freighter fleet and global food balance was axed; this concept allowed for really extreme job sharing between planets. One or two poor Gaia planets could feed a few radiated rich production bases; now the bases can get the migrants but need to feed them locally. An ultra-poor breeder colony could pump out population fast, now it has to build ships for it locally, which it does poorly. The result is that colonies become less unique, more alike.
 

Colonies - While I can understand you moved pop growth from industry (housing) to food, this screws over the Silicoid and their likes who can't breed. If e.g. microbiotics does anything, the UI does a good job hiding it.

Initially I thought diminishing return for production slots reflects pollution; which would have been a clever visualisation of the old mechanics. Only it doesn't. Discounting current production would be more convenient than the recurring waste disposal. If you really need pollution, make it only when overstepping sensible limits, not as a rule.

Moral - I also have no clue how it currently works. I see no productivity loss or gain at a colony, but must admit I didn't tax heavily.

With the old system (freighters and every worker slot equal, any variations then calculated) I could easily manage my empire's production and worker deployment just from the colony list.

 

 



BraggiMoO #7 Posted 25 May 2016 - 02:31 PM

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Last not least - science and research.

Again, in MoO 2 only memorizing at least the basic options made the system workable. So I knew the trunks where to get specific tech (say production enhancement) and which mayor alternatives for my plan they competed with (say factory with heavy armor or robot factory with battlestation). Control points were either with construction (orbital stations) or physics (broadcasting). Chemistry held fuel, armor, rockets, pollution, ... Almost unmanageable for a new player.

 

On the other hand I could take my time selecting a single tech for the next research, checking alternatives in advance. The choice is not only between these 2 or 3 techs, but also which alternatives exist for the discarded ones later on. While the tree is nicely visualising technology, it is too crowded. A single tech field can dump up to 4 applications and achievements on the user, and he must sometimes decide between exclusive alternatives on the fly.  Yes, I can select a whole path at once, but is this where I want to go?

 

If you want to keep the current flow and tree, allow the user to skip tech selection and view /query the tree for an informed decision. Selecting a new research target is disabled (or jumps to the decision request).

Query should highlight applications and achievements, not tech fields with 3-6 issues. I want a quick comparison of alternatives, an overview of options. Scanning e.g. tooltips with mouseover on a result list, and click-jump to the tech field in the tree. The current query highlight of tech fields is messy; because the user still doesn't know which application was tagged relevant and stumbles through the tree. I once searched a highlighted field but found no relevant application; tagging error or my fault? Frustrating waste of time.


Edited by BraggiMoO, 25 May 2016 - 02:32 PM.


Laegad #8 Posted 25 May 2016 - 09:42 PM

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Build screen on planets

 

I think you should order what it can be build by "price" or by "time to make",

Not by categories like it is actually done.

Faster-build objects on top of this screen, where player do not need to scroll in order to click on.

 

Argumentation :

- In mid-end game, when you colonise a new planet, the first building are almost always the quicker to build.

   With few population, we cannot start to make other building

- Group building by categories is useless, because if a player want to select something on a specific group, he can click on categories (recherche/Nourriture/Production/Economie/Defense/General) to filter this category.

 

In the screen attached by example, i probably build the "champignonniere", or something not to many expensive to boost production, or something for BC (7 turns).. witch is not on top of the screen but should be.

 

Also, the bar "Population, credit, defense, securite, moral, pollution" should be copied on the popup screen where players click on what he want to build

 

Argumentation :

On this screen, the decision of what to make is depending on the state of the planet (the bar with "Population 6/20, credit +8, defense, securite, moral, pollution).

So, almost always when i was on the screen where i had to choose what to make; i need to watch this bar in order to decide.

So, i had to close to "choice screen" to watch the planet, choose what to make, re-open the screen just closed and then click on what i want to build.

The close-reopen could be avoided if this bar was copied on the "popup screen".

 

Attached Files

  • Attached File   PlanetBuildScreen.jpg   64.45K

Edited by Laegad, 25 May 2016 - 09:50 PM.


Laegad #9 Posted 25 May 2016 - 10:45 PM

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Little bug of data-reset :

I just finished a game with Sakkra, and begin a game with Klackon.

Just passed by the main screen to start the 2nd game.

Look at the attached screen shot: Fleet of the previous game appear on the starting screen of the 2nd game.

 

Attached Files

  • Attached File   ShipsFromPreviousGame.jpg   210.38K


RolloDK #10 Posted 26 May 2016 - 02:22 PM

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Early observations of new patch:

Pre warp with pirates mean all get swaped in pirates while not being able to build ships. Think it would be better if pirates came like turn 20 if prewarp instead of turn 4.

 

Klackon there is something completely wrong with both + food and + production it is as if it has little or no effect ingame. Almost unplayable atm.

MrrSha there is something completely off with food generation on their homeworld did you accidently change their über? In any case they are unplayable atm.

Sakkra seems to grow the same rate as other races. While meklar seems to have gotten their population boost.

Silicoids can now put all 6 peeps in production with no pollution spitting out a colony ship each 10 turns while their homeworld grows each 10 turns. It is an insane boost. So they have come from beeing called the turbo race.

To become the mega turbo race. While the patch note says they have been slowed down. I had single player games with 80% of a huge galaxy being filled with silicoids before turn 100. It is just wrong.

 

So the current state is silicoids + meklar is now so strong that most dont allow them in multiplayer

And people refuse to play klackon mrrsha and some people sakkra too.

So the current game balance voids atleast 5 races.



BraggiMoO #11 Posted 26 May 2016 - 06:36 PM

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View PostRolloDK, on 26 May 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Klackon there is something completely wrong with both + food and + production it is as if it has little or no effect ingame. Almost unplayable atm.

 

That one is easy, just looked at them. They have a horrible starting planet. Medium / Arid / Poor, this more than consumes the tiny +25% bonus for food and production.

Old Klackon hat +50% on a terran planet, huge difference. The terrible thing is currently that Klackons even pay points for this terrible planet, instead of getting some reduction.

Starting planet is obviously a huge factor, as a significant part of your initial growth depends on it, especially in pre-warp.

So if you pay for an uber planet, you should actually start on one, not on its ugly little brother.

 

Food works different than the old MoO2 as well. Formerly it was a requirement, binding workers. Increased productivity set workers free for production and research, the things you really wanted. While you started with 50% workers in farming, in the end less than 10% were enough to feed your empire.

Here food is a boost for pop growth, like the old housing. So you must spend some workers on it, to benefit from this with increased growth. So at start you don't have the excess unused workers to boost you. In the end you can't use a few highly productive farm planets to feed your barren factory planets any more.


Edited by BraggiMoO, 26 May 2016 - 08:34 PM.


jrepin #12 Posted 26 May 2016 - 08:53 PM

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Loading stops on main screen and no main menu is shown

 

I just purchased the game on Steam and I try to run EA4 on Kubuntu Linux 16.04 (64-bit). The game shows a two logo videos and then shows a bluish Master of Orion screen with stars and lines between some of them. The it just stops here. No menu to start game or anything like that is shown. So I can't even start playing and testing :( Graphics or system is not frozen, I can use it just fine if I switch with Alt+Tab. If I bring up process list with Ctrl+Esc I can see MasterOfOrion.x86_64 runing and using about 20 % of CPU.

 

System configuration:

  • Linux kernel 4.4.0
  • Dual-core AMD E2-2000 APU
  • 4 GiB of memory
  • AMD Radeon HD 7340

 

On the same computer Stellaris and other games work just fine



BraggiMoO #13 Posted 26 May 2016 - 10:23 PM

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Changes and UI of production and polution...

I think I do now know approximately how this works, and why it, erm, is less than stelar. Mildly put.

 

To get an idea I took a savegame and slowly ripped off detox buildings and production boosters.

comprehension issue #1:

A large rich swamp planet started with 4*3 + 3*2 production slots. Before "swamp" was responsible for fertility; swamp+size for overall pop limit. Within this limit workers could be distributed freely, having a half empty planet also caused less pollution. Pollution just reduced output, until diminishing return of new workers dropped to zero. Overall production numbers were much higher. Anti-Pollution buildings visibly increased your production, because they prevented production becomming waste.

 

Now production slots are kind of a fraction of overall size /pop limit, diminishing returns already built in but without a way to fix it by tech. If a user wants to use the few slots fully, he gets accumulating pollution (unless he has more detox than production enhancers), which must be regularly removed. Which other users already complained about. Available slots+value depend on size and minerals, but... the final slots are unlocked with terraforming (fraction of size/ pop limit, remember?). Luckily effect of terrain on production slots is otherwise slight; there is more impact on science and food.

Detox buildings counter boosters, but the description is drivel. Reduce polution -25%, huh? That might as well be liter, kg or megabrabbels. Maybe this meant % of production before I get the same level of polution??

On my large rich planet, thoroid (+1/s), robo factory (2 fix, +1/s) + factory (2 fix) about doubled my production (19 to 37) and raised polution from 2% to 6%; athmo renewer and toxic something made this 2% again.

Tech descriptions or tooltips definitely didn't help here.

 

Anyway if there's a point where production is overused and pollution starts, the slots don't visualise this. Their diminishing returns have nothing to do with pollution.

Also planet size gets really important, because on smaller planets slot value drops dramaticly. With fewer slots, per-slot-bonus buildings  are less worthwile.

There'd have to be a lot of misery to make me settle small planets for production here.

 



BraggiMoO #14 Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:21 AM

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Revisit space maps, exploration, scanning, space travel:

 

The more I see of the space-lane-web-system, the less I like it in its current form.

Unlimited reach from the start? Bad idea, completely changing discovery of the universe, logistics, ... Diplomacy as well, because losing outposts or planets could break contact to other civilizations.

Red lanes as blockers? A consequence of the "unlimited reach" idea, borrowed from Ascendency like the whole lane-web. Is it a bug that there are non in huge universes, or do you need them less to hinder blizzing?

 

My few scouts roam the map endlessly, just a matter of diligence, hardly planing or creativity. In the original there was more risk, as space monsters defended the system, not just stationary a planet. Cheap, replaceable scouts were used for a reason. Now I can just afford them sooner, but could use my cruisers as well. Scan range was originally from installations, not every vessel. Makes sense, unless a ship has special equipment. That way I don't identify fleets (and monsters) this early.

It is hard to create a feeling of exploration here, unlocking new horizons. Going somewhere first time should be harder, slower (maybe get scouting equipment to ease this). Races would have warp point states, maybe friendly wp installations speed up travel as well, easing navigation. Map trading also helps. Scout replacements would catch up faster, as they travel known territory. Currently crawling the lane web is just too fast.

Also a consequence of the "buy upgrades immediately" system. In the original I had to reconstruct the ships at a planet that could build it, now I can buy this everywhere, anytime. (Edit: actually wrong, except for scouts which don't have a BP. didn't check the popup sufficiently.) So a first generation scout is always up to date, even on the far side of the universe... Make refitting something that only happens at bases.

 

Tech tree: Deep scanner is a useful tech that I mostly overlooked, especially when focusing on cheaper, more useful colony tech first. Just too easily replaced with 2-3 more scouts; when I finally get it, the galaxy is usually already 2/3rds explored. If I wouldn't see monsters automatically though, it would be more useful, helping to evade losing encounters.
Unlocking red lanes on the other hand is too deep in the tree, without alternative. Maybe if it were no pure yes/no block, but damage a ship without tech? Also traveling using up more time unless researched? That way races can work around it, but it still slows down.

 

Ok, waiting for the next iteration now.

 

 


Edited by BraggiMoO, 27 May 2016 - 10:59 AM.


BraggiMoO #15 Posted 27 May 2016 - 08:38 AM

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I got one more:

Currently the whole race trait system is unbalanced. The reason is that quite a few things work different from before, but they still have the same name and cost, as a starting point.

 

Food mentioned above is a good example of things working completely different, costs don't reflect this. How redundant is food production with pop growth? Before they were unrelated, not any more.

Pollution is another example; as it doesn't really boost output like before (and tolerant was imbalanced anyway, true) it is probably too expensive.

If a race has an uber planet, it should start on one, otherwise it is a disadvantage.

 

You try to build the former races, here the unbalanced cost shows. In MoO's system each race had the same amount of stat point cost like the player (10; 100 in the new system, increasing with difficulty). This is not true for your races, I can't rebuild them as a custom race.



BraggiMoO #16 Posted 28 May 2016 - 01:40 PM

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Map usability issues; tech tree consequences, scaling

 

Race colors with too little contrast; in my game I have blue (me), pale blue (human), purple (Darlok)  and pink/purple (Psilon) - all before a black-blue galaxy background.

Also some almost invisible pale brown (Klackon); just Meklar (deep blue) missing to the party...  Good job! Might be a better idea to not color-code races, but use 8 distinctive colors each game.

 

Reached midgame. Seamless map is nice, but the constant zooming-in, zooming-out is nauseating; and I haven't found a way to switch this off. Also sometimes have trouble changing zoom-rate with wheel, resistance slightly too high.

After using wormholes, map doesn't mark the corresponding holes (MoO's lines), have to memorize this. Seriously?

Jump gates massively change travel logic, but I can't see them on the map. Some filters would be nice. Currently there is too much noise, on the other hand relevant information is missing. Like locations of portals, or shipyards. On the other hand I am slapped with huge green circles of planetary events... Think of real maps, information economy dictates to cut out everything not relevant to the purpose. If your map serves several purposes, offer different views.

 

A few techs are singular game changers (like jump gates); think about some low-tech alternatives to lead up there. I don't like space factory micromanagement, but it will probably stay. Currently turtling the own systems is free of cost, and with annoying pirates almost needed. On the other hand there's no other installations to speed up travel, but a navigation beacon would be a primary use IMO.

Advanced government is another (unnecessary) singular break. Why not trade food first, with a lower tech? Anyway, settling a whole system is nice, but if you play aggressive you can't afford the cost and resulting delay. Especially not tenturns of planet improvement. (Sakkra sort of teases me to do it anyway, because pumping out transports and colonists is needed to keep my pop growth on steroids. A feeding race will probably settle with the mature planet and pull workers out of food.) You focus on the most productive planets and pump out ships and research.

This gets me to troop transports; why are they one level beyond civilian ships? Hiding needed tech for agression deeper in the tree just limits valid game strategies, and handicap dumber races. It will not keep players from finding ways to blizz. Swap Xeno relations and Military tactics (maybe reallocate buildings).

 

Anyway, handling a growing empire is a chore, not fun, but this was already pointed out by other players. The fleet list is so-so, factories and transports are e.g. both "civilian". Not helpful. The most valuable information for finding my combat fleets is the strength aggregate.

 

Control point cost - In the beginning cruisers are pretty useless. They cost twice control and have about double stats; building cost is similar. The original used 1.5* control but higher performance and cost from the start, which somehow makes more sense.



BraggiMoO #17 Posted 28 May 2016 - 03:50 PM

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View PostRolloDK, on 26 May 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Early observations of new patch:

Pre warp with pirates mean all get swaped in pirates while not being able to build ships. Think it would be better if pirates came like turn 20 if prewarp instead of turn 4.

 

Concur. While it is possible to fire up a frigate, this is retarded gameplay.

Even in a post-warp game, negativ events shouldn't come at once. Weak enough as pirates are, this means immediate reaction is needed, limiting options.



Laegad #18 Posted 29 May 2016 - 11:57 PM

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View PostBraggiMoO, on 26 May 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

So if you pay for an uber planet, you should actually start on one, not on its ugly little brother.

 

I'm agree with this.



Laegad #19 Posted 30 May 2016 - 12:16 AM

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View PostBraggiMoO, on 27 May 2016 - 08:38 AM, said:

You try to build the former races, here the unbalanced cost shows. In MoO's system each race had the same amount of stat point cost like the player (10; 100 in the new system, increasing with difficulty). This is not true for your races, I can't rebuild them as a custom race.

 

About custom race : The "starting technology" and the "Starting age" should be specials.

 

How i thinks it should be:

- In "custom race" screen, "Starting technologies" should have no cost,

- In this screen, players are allowed to pick the 1st technology and the 2nd technology of the customised race

- Then, if game setting is "pre-warp" => No race have a "starting technology".

- If game setting is "post-warp", each race have its "1st technology" as starting technology.

- If game setting is "advanced", each race have both its 1st and 2nd technologies, or all (i haven't played with this parameter yet; if they have all, no need to choose a 2nd technology)

 

Actually, when you custom a race... who pay for a starting technology ?

This "advantage" is lost so quickly as game start.

And you can see that only 2 race don't have a starting technology : Meklar and Silicoid... 2 race that (if i read this forum) seems to be OP.

Perhaps it is one of the reasons ?.. 20 points are spend by over races for this.

 


Edited by Laegad, 30 May 2016 - 12:30 AM.


TickTack44 #20 Posted 30 May 2016 - 08:23 AM

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I would like hotkeys to deal with all the repetitive tasks:

1. Reading notification icons every turn

2. Move Fleets button

3. Fleet Needs Orders button

 

I would also like a Waypoint system, that I can use to tell all newly-built ships at a system to auto-travel to a waypoint of my choosing. 







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