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http://www.ggsgamer.com/2015/06/17/e3-2015-preview-master-of-orion/

 

 

 

Edited by MOO2MOD, 18 June 2015 - 11:10 PM.

I read that....it's very much MOO3 and Endless Space. I can live with it but this aspect is really not a reboot from neither MOO1 nor MOO2 which i was hoping it would be. Takes away the MOO feeling from the strategy map.

Edited by anguille_1, 19 June 2015 - 09:42 AM.

Yeah same for me here as i said in other parts of the forum. I really don't like that about 4x Space-games :-(

Classic MoO2 Navigation would fit far better than this. It's not totally free but you have the choice to navigate everywhere from wherever you want.

Edited by Cephir2010, 19 June 2015 - 01:31 PM.

Create game with different mechanics, use well known names for races and technologies, say it is MoO... brilliant...

I predict failure.

Edited by Rozjemca35, 19 June 2015 - 04:11 PM.

GalCiv III and StarDrive II have no starlanes.

Starlanes in space are a very artificial way to create 'boundaries'.

It also comes as a big surprise; MOO1&2 had free intra star movement and I would expect to get the same or maybe even fully free galaxy movement.

Instead we get this restriction.

Why?

Edited by MOO2MOD, 20 June 2015 - 09:28 PM.

Star Lane thread in the .com forum:

http://forum.masteroforion.com/index.php?/topic/56-star-lanes-or-no-star-lanes/#topmost

I think that having option to send your fleet anywhere, not just star systems, would be great, as it supports the MoO1&2 movement which was unrestricted. You could fly anywhere you wanted as long as your fuel was enough or black hole wasnt in the way. Its something that can be said as one of defining feature of MoO.

 

Thought, it may be possible to form some sort of "chokepoint" by making a technology, and probably a planetary or space building, that creates artificial gravity well and forces enemy, or rather, non-friendly ships to slow down if they get close to the system where you may have your fleet ready to deal with the trespasser. It may slow down the enemy attacks on your empire and give you time for preparation of new defense lines and counter operations.

 

As the MoO1-2 in fact makes the "fortress systems" not as important for your defenses, since enemy can easily bypass them. Then they may just serve "thorn in enemy's back", depending on the garrisoned fleet here and your resources. But I would rather want this one than "fixed star lanes".

Edited by VMetalic, 14 July 2015 - 09:51 PM.

I hope they drop starlane chokepoint thingie. Cant one get inspired from so many sci -fi shows out there or do some research on astronomy, about how certain things might work or not. Have nebulas, certain stars and plethora of real and fictional anomalies in open space betwean stars that could make these chokepoints? 

i would prefer the MoO2 free range option myself, but if they want to do starlanes, that's ok too - different game than MoO, but ok.

 

my problem with Endless Space was: u had starlanes at the begining, u created choke points to defend u;r part of the map - only to research free roam later in the game and all your strategy up until that point was null.

 

so..pick a way to stick to it. no mixing.

I have to say star lanes, and choke points means my interest in this wanes....I won't preorder if you're apeing more of MOO3 and 'modern' games and not looking to the roots

Why is everyone being so polite about it.  

 

Whether you call them "choke points", Startlanes or whatever, it sucks massively.  I loved the Go anywhere nav in Moo2 which made it amazing.  

Starlanes and choke points just achieve one thing.. they make the AI simpler to create.  

 

The bloggers and review sites won't complain about it as otherwise they will lose their early access.  So its down to us fans to let them know that we won't buy it, if it has starlanes/ choke points... never 

 

Their marketing people know that it puts people off, so they have stopped showing screenshots with starlanes in them.  Why don't the designers get it?   They can either use the navigation from MOO2 which was one of the most successful 4x of all time, or they can use the nav from MOO3 which was a flop and KILLED THE SERIES.  

 

I know what I would pick

 

 

Personally I am having none of it if there are starlanes . 

Hmm. I don't really care about starlanes or not. I don't think that alone killed Moo3. However the AI was not very good at using them, actually the AI in general was pritty poor and that kills a game more than anything else every time, and the game itself wasn't very interractive, especially later on. Infact if you look around most forums in any game, the number one complaint for the vast majority of those is poor AI and UI.

 

However, IF starlanes are to be added, I'd like a work around a long with it so that you aren't restricted solely to using them. Say for instance, with starlanes you could work along the route from A > b > c > d. That's fine, I don't mind much, but I also want the option to be ble to go straight from A to D directly, at the cost of time. And I'd like the AI to have the ability to understand and use this concept to it's advantage. Especially on higher difficulty levels.

Hello,

 

I'm posting here my thoughts to the Starlane topic. It's rougly translated from my original german thread.

 

STARLANES vs. FREE MOVEMENT

 

Especially the open travel in MoO I and II was nice. It lead to decision making in research, building, fleet positioning and colonization. Do I research better engines or sensors or ship range, where do I position my fleet, do I built or buy some defensive stuff first in my colony etc.. To improve this aspect of global decission making would be more in the way I see Master of Orion.

 

Most of the game time in MoO II you have fire and forget fleets until the discovery (or "discovery" as the little Darlok in us would say) of the hyperspace communication. I found this similar to a starlane. But this is not(!) realistic for the game setting. Fleets travel years to arrive at their target only to get than told to come back -> they just have to drop out of hyperspace once a year to follow my newest command it would be the same when they arrive in a system.

 

Possible solution (concept)

I see their some some chance to connect both settings (starlane and free movement). My proposal works in that way, empires built up boosted routes or "Highways in space" in addition to the free movement. On those routes from system A-B the speed is higher than on the free movement. This can be explained by some devices which are constructed to boost/smoothen the hyperspace or whatever in a particular area of space. Due to the fact that all use the same or similar hyperspace technique those boosted routes work for all (with a warp (hyperspace?) interdictor we maybe can implement a "friend or foe" detection later.. but thats just for the story).

 

Additionally I would love to see a bigger economic use in MoO. Therefore we have trade agreements. Those agreements should only be possible with neighbours or those who I usually can reach with my ships and not only by sensors(!). So if a enemy sits between me and my most important trade partner i should get rid of him because he blocks the trade between us. To come back to the boosted routes, they could generate some bonus money due to the fact of faster travel/trading. This could also be applied to research agreeements.

 

Those hyperspace/warp improvement technology could be a research relatively early in the game. The result of this double solution would be the creation of chocke points without the loss of all the other strategic and tactical options of free movement.

 

Other thing i would love to see in the game: Nebulae which improve/decrease movement, sensor range, shield or weapon function etc.

 

 

THOUGHTS ABOUT THE ACTUAL STATUS (to my knwoledge)

 

Regarding the actual way it works that I have to build several starbases to protect the wormhole(?) starlane entrance. In MoOII I have to build a starbase into the planets orbit - so this planet is "save". In the new set up I have maybe three starlanes ending/starting in my system and I build one starbase so i've protected only one direction. That is ok if only from this direction the bad guys come. When I've only one planet in the system I've to build compared to MoO II three startbases instead of one which is is logical because such a base isn't very mobile but i've three times the cost. Invaders now have only to beat one starbase to get access to the whole system. When I've only one planet than we have no difference to MoO II but in case of we have more planets they are all open for the invaders. 

 

Starbases are able to block the entrance/exit of the starlane - how does it work whe in one system different races colonize? Does everyone build his own starbase at the entrances? How is the access regulated - I've war with the Mrrshan and my Psilon neighbour is best friend to them - he allows them to travel in the system I wont.. When I go to war with this Psilon in my system do the starbases fight each other? What I've seen so far about this solution I would guess it does complicate things more for the developers than other options.

 

Sidenote: It should be possible to design own starbases especially their weapon and extra systems set up. Same should be possible for the ground batteries, missile bases etc. And it should be possible to build way more heavier defences for the system and/or planetary defence. The more i built the higher will the upkeep be. I have the trade off decision between stationary defence and mobile defence with ships.

 

 

So far my 2 cents. Sorry for my bad english and writing errors. Nevertheless I hope my points can be understood. I'm curious what u guys think about my proposed solution concept.

 

(I also posted this in the .com MoO Forum)

 

Edited by Kezitaal, 17 December 2015 - 04:06 PM.

Kezitaal;

 

First of all, it's good to see some constructed thoughts on the topic, something more than 'I don't like starlanes' - thanks for translating them!

 

As for your assessment of MoO2's 'fire and forget' system, I don't think you're 100% right, all three tiers of Communications Technology (Tachyon, Subspace, Hyperspace) increase the range at which you can change the orders of your ships, in particular, Subspace give you a 6-Parsec 'communications' range, which will encompass the majority of the distance travelled towards a hostile planet in the midgame.

 

Funnily enough, your suggestion of a device that can be created to improve inter-system travel is already included in MoO2 as well, the 'Jump Gate' and 'Star Gate' technologies (Also in the Physics tech tree) increase the travel speed between your colonies. I think that these technologies could be implemented well in the new Master of Orion, especially with the new 'Space Factory' unit, which could allow you to create jump gates in allied, neutral or hostile systems, to improve trade income, general speed, or allowing reinforcements to reach an enemies' system sooner.

 

In MoO2, they were automatically installed at every colony, but it could be nice to build them as an improvement to star bases, or again, built by the space factory ships.

 

If you want to talk about tech trees, one of the interesting coincidences of MoO2 is that these technologies were part of the same level of the Physics Tech Tree - Jump Gates and Sub Space Communications were a choice that needed to be made for all non-creative players, and the additional fleet supply for Sub Space often made that the better choice.

 

 

Overall, I don't like the use of Wormholes/Star Lanes as an artificial means of simplifying the galaxy - it's taking a 2d map, and reducing the already limited movement, but the tools improving options from a basic distance-style map have already been implemented in MoO2, and can be further expanded on here.

 

EDIT: I've included a Youtube video from PAX Australia, from 16 minutes, the presenter talks about the reasoning for Star Lanes/Wormholes, and basically says it was the response to a community opinion of not being able to predict where an attack would come from (I would love more information here, because Star Lanes/Wormholes seem very unpopular). After that, he talks about/shows off the Space Factory ship.

 

 

Edited by Seablaze, 08 January 2016 - 07:30 AM.

Seablaze,

 

thank you for your answer! 

 

 

I wrote about the hyperspace communication. I know this, but the ability to change to direction could realistically utilised with hyperspace communication and maybe with jump gate because most of the time ships where after one turn out of range.  I play only vs the AI on "impossible" there is seldom need to change the direction of a fleet. When I need to change the course than it's 99% out of range ;-) That's what I call "fire and forget", I should have used the quotation mark.

 

 

 

Thats why I suggest it, it's a concept which uses the existing and the new stuff to combine it to something better.

 

 

 

I attach a small game which demonstrates how tactical free movement is:

https://play.google....s.auralux&hl=de

https://itunes.apple...d604580669?mt=8

 

It's all about strategy. Starlanes would kill this game ;-)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Kezitaal, 09 January 2016 - 04:41 PM.