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What do you absolutely want in the new Master of Orion


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Aquasarrious #1 Posted 11 June 2015 - 10:28 PM

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I'm a big fan of Master of Orion 2 and i really hope, besides all the critical elements, that we will still be able to make custom races AND that tactical combat is in.

Tactical combat is a big reason why i spent so much time on Master of Orion 2...be clever with your ship designs and you can defeat an army much larger than yours, or even more technologically advanced !

Also...leaders ! I loved the colony and ship leaders...it almost gave my colonies and fleets a story and the boosts it provided were really good.
So...what do YOU want in this next installment ?



TimAhKin #2 Posted 12 June 2015 - 09:01 AM

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I want custom races too. The next thing that I want is a good AI and a good diplomacy system along that.

Oh, and free roam moving through the galaxy.( of course with required tech)



Dragool #3 Posted 13 June 2015 - 07:40 AM

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Deepness of MOO2 technology. At the best you could grin broadly when your fleet's setups were superior against your opponents, only to be totally ass kicked in next battle against different weapons. Magic moments. Keep this, and pay attention to diplomacy, pls. 

 

New idea: enter the stealth bombers, like a B-2 Spirit in a real world. These type of stealth bombers could fire their bombs or torpedoes against enemy fleet, starbase or planet infrastructure, without entering in a battle mode. When succeeding. Leading your opponent shake his/her head in wonder, who the hell just blow up my starbase? Then again being spotted, and these stealth bombers would be easy targets for fighters to take down. These stealth fighters could cost a LOT, as we know they do in a real world, and being used as a strategic bombers to slow down your opponents growth, weaken the planets defense system or a fleet before the actual strike with your main battle fleet. Or just to create distraction and confusion. Since Darlok was, in my opinion, quite weak race, they could have bonus with the stealth bombers cost or getting hands on to stealth technology earlier? Again, if the biggest stealth bombers would be able to take down even a star base, by firing all of it torpedoes at once and then leaving the scene, that stealth bomber should cost as much as starbase it self. It would be very expensive and when spotted, easy to take down even with couple of smallest fighters. 

 

 


Edited by Dragool, 13 June 2015 - 08:45 AM.


Dragool #4 Posted 13 June 2015 - 09:52 AM

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More about the stealth bombers idea I introduced above.

 

How it works:

Stealth bomber must enter to star without being spotted, and then either say put for collecting information about the system, or fire bombs/torpedoes to planetary structure, starbase or enemy fleet, without entering in a battle mode/screen, and then evading without being spotted.

 

Spotting the stealth ship:

Based on enemy fleet number in the star, their scanners level and possible planetary radar level, versus level of the stealth tech used in stealth bomber. Also depending of the fleet size of your stealth ships, is it a lonely ranger or a small fleet? Possible gains from leaders or races (Darlok). More the time that stealth ship spents on the star, the higher the risk of being spotted comes. Once spotted, if enemy has a fleet or starbase in the system, the stealth ship is destroyed automatically.

 

The stealth ship

One of the big hooks of MMO was ship designs.  Should stealth ship be own class or hull type, as they do IRL, or is it just an equipment that you can add to any of your hulls? Stealth ship should include stealth field/hull, possible extra fuel tank and massive load of bombs and torpedoes, to do a heavy damage at one shot and as soon as missiles are fired, the stealth ship should disappear.

 

Cost:

Extremely high. Where in real life state of the art F-22 raptor costs about 420 million $, B-2 Spirit stealth bomber costs 2200 million $. This should be the background for MMO too; stealth bomber comes with big price tag, in can be very useful in strategic missions, hit and run before ashes fall, or for spying purposes.  On the flipside, once spotted by enemy fighter in a close distance, your super expensive bomber will turn to a super expensive piece of debris in a blink of an eye. So if player chooses to spend money and time for this technology, it should be used very carefully and well planned operations.

 

Hull sizes:

There should be some variation, from a smaller ships capable destroying small planetary infrastructure or enemy vessels, up to big ones that can take out a starbase with a single shot by releasing all the torpedoes at one shot. Smaller ships would be better for spying purposes, where big ones dealing a devastating first strike.

 

Questions:

Due to nature of their hit and run tactics, stealth ships should be cable of doing a lot of damage in a one shot. How to balance heavy damage bombs and torpedoes of stealth ships, to compare missiles and torpedoes used by normal fighters in a battle screen? Or should stealth ships bigger damage output be explained by the surprise advantage that they have, compared to normal dog fight on a battle screen? Or should new torpedoes and bombs be introduced to stealth purpose only, with their own tech tree and high purchasing cost?

 

Speed:

Should this depend on your level of engine technology, or is there a traveling speed penalty for staying stealth?

 

 

What do you think guys? All the feedback is welcome, is this an interesting spice to the soup, or is there possible holes in a plan for not introducing stealth ships like this?

 

 



Aquasarrious #5 Posted 13 June 2015 - 12:51 PM

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Sadly it seems they don't want tactical combat in their game (those lazy ass devs are going to fail hard with this game imo).

Seriously...what's the point ? Buy an IP and create a remake with LESS options than a game 2 decades old ? -___O
Wtf.
Oh well, i guess i'll have to make one myself, then.

(source:
forum.masteroforion.com/index.php?/topic/47-a-bit-more-information-about-the-game/page__pid__240#entry240

Quote

One of the reasons Keeling is confident that he and NGD will get this right is because they're not treating the original games' design as holy writ. He uses ship design and tactical battles as an example.

"I think that was a mistake made by some of these [later 4X] games," he said. "They thought that was a key feature that was going to bring a lot of people in. [But] you can only focus on so many things. If you focus on everything, it becomes too complex. It's unmanageable. Unwieldy. If you do a deep-dive on only a few things, they have to relate directly to what the player is doing. So while there are a lot of players that played tactical battles, there's not that many. It's about 10% of the players. So if you deep dive on that, you're wasting a lot of resources [that could have gone] to something that's really more important to the gameplay."



TimAhKin #6 Posted 13 June 2015 - 01:57 PM

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And after that he said :

Quote

Hey peeps! What I meant was (guess I needed to be more clear) was that we weren’t diving deep on tactical combat and ship design at the expense of the core gameplay, as has been done by other games. We’re doing core strategic gameplay first (because it’s the most important), but we’re also having extremely fun and deep tactical combat with a lot of cool features, as well as ship design more in line with the (as Ermdog mentioned) MOO2 level of control. We’re not abandoning these aspects of the game, we just recognize (and yes Gary, we have done our research) that focusing on parts of the game used by only 10% of the players isn’t the way to make the best game, it’s the way to ensure that the primary gameplay – conquering the galaxy through strategic decisionmaking and resource management – would not be up to par.

Don’t worry, we’ve got this. More to come. :)


Edited by TimAhKin, 13 June 2015 - 01:58 PM.


Seth_Steiner #7 Posted 13 June 2015 - 09:04 PM

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The funny thing is, that I don't really want anything new but just the old game improved. I mean, why is Master of Orion still someting many people play and mention if it comes to 4X? Because it was a game that made so much right and had it's own unique mix of a lot of aspects that fit perfectly. I don't want to say all the games that came after were bad or something like that, they were just different and had their own strength in their own fields but unfortunatly there was never one that really matched the formula. Most of the time that wasn't that bad but I often thought "well, they could've done this way better, if they just had looked back", like in terms of the interfaces. Very complex, much scrolling involved, cold colors, spacey styles that are lacking the thought that went to interfaces in that era MoO evolved, to make them fit the games. When I start Master of Orion, the interface, the colors, the whole style welcomes me, it's all very intuitiv and it sucks you in. There aren't just bars to adjust galaxy size, difficulty and era, there are pictures, all species fit on one screen and I can hover over all 13, instead of clicking myself through an endless list. Same goes for the customization screen, one (!) screen, no scrolling, just right click for more information. Simplicity in a stunning style without lacking information or depth. Something very, very rare not just today but even over a decade ago too. So yeah the heart and thought and work that went into MoO2, i want to see and feel that again.

 

And besides that, all 13 races + Custom.^^


Edited by Seth_Steiner, 13 June 2015 - 10:44 PM.


Rozjemca35 #8 Posted 13 June 2015 - 09:34 PM

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MoO2 had perfect balance. From the information already released (only 100 techs, starlanes, number of races) it sounds it will be poorer version than MoO2 was. I'm concerned they will earn their cash because of sentiment, but it will not be a worthy successor of MoO franchise. Like Seth_Steiner said.. I also want updated MoO2, and not a next low budget 4x game we've seen plenty. Why weren't they as successful as MoO? Because they did some things differently, things that people did not like as much. I don't want MoO clone, I want MoO...



Aquasarrious #9 Posted 13 June 2015 - 10:37 PM

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View PostTimAhKin, on 13 June 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

And after that he said :

Quote

Hey peeps! What I meant was (guess I needed to be more clear) was that we weren’t diving deep on tactical combat and ship design at the expense of the core gameplay, as has been done by other games. We’re doing core strategic gameplay first (because it’s the most important), but we’re also having extremely fun and deep tactical combat with a lot of cool features, as well as ship design more in line with the (as Ermdog mentioned) MOO2 level of control. We’re not abandoning these aspects of the game, we just recognize (and yes Gary, we have done our research) that focusing on parts of the game used by only 10% of the players isn’t the way to make the best game, it’s the way to ensure that the primary gameplay – conquering the galaxy through strategic decisionmaking and resource management – would not be up to par.

Don’t worry, we’ve got this. More to come. :)

 

Oooh thanks a ton for this quote, then. I was really mad when i read the one i quoted haha...
Well not mad but disappointed, really. I'll still have MoO2 even if they screw up but i'm really hoping they don't ^^

Boygor #10 Posted 14 June 2015 - 11:26 AM

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I want stellar converters.  I loved nothing more than reducing the entire galaxy to nothing more than asteroid belts.  The only life was life that I sanctioned (i.e. one tiny, ultra poor toxic world for the last surviving race I deemed acceptable).

 

I would also love to see the return of assault shuttles.  Nothing quite like capturing an Antares frigate early on an boom! xentromium armour before Zortrium :)



Mikko_M #11 Posted 14 June 2015 - 04:52 PM

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1. Player controllable, large scale ( at least semi-modern graphics) space battles.

This really is a must for a new Master Of Orion game. Since there are already tons of Galactic Civilization types of games out there with either no player control (or at least very limited control) of battles, extremely small battles, or space battles with graphics strait out of the golden 1990`s. So I am begging you, please do not mess this opportunity up by overlooking the space battles, which were a huge part of the success of Master Of Orion 2. Give us control of our beautiful space armadas so that we can rule the galaxy instead of watching some idiot AI do that for us.

 

The biggest mistake in my opinion that MOO2 made here was that the battles weren`t simultaneously turn based (first both players give their commands and then both fleets execute their orders simultaneously like in Star Trek: Birth Of the Federation). Since it was a bit silly that first one player had the chance of destroying most of the enemy fleet before the other player even could do anything. Also some sort of ship grouping tools could have also helped with managing large fleets in battles.

 

Note: If you fail in this part of the game the chances are that me and many others won`t even bother to buy the game no matter how well the other parts of the game are done. It just is that important.

 

 

2. The ability to design your own ships.

This together with the user controllable space battles was always big part of the MOO2 magic in my opinion. First you make the choices on what technology you want to research, then put that technology to your ships, build them and see how they do in battle against enemy fleets or space monsters. That was just fun.

 

 

3. Balanced set of races. Each with their own set of strengths and weaknesses. + The ability to create new custom races.

In my opinion the Psilons were perhaps a bit over powerful in Master Of Orion 2, but it was quite cool to play by utilizing the strengths of the other races.

 

 

4. Master Of Orion 2 type of living and moving diplomatic representatives and a lot more diplomatic options.

Even today I still find the diplomatic meeting room of MOO2 to be extremely beautiful with its living representatives of other species making their case to me, the ruler of a mighty galactic empire. MOO2 also used music very well in diplomacy to give you a feel for the different cultures you met. The only bad thing about MOO 2 diplomacy in my opinion was that there were quite limited options of what you could do with other empires, plus the behavior of the AI in diplomacy wasn`t always very logical. So more complex alliances, trading options and a smarter AI would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

5. Multiple victory conditions that you can turn on 

Not just a military victory, but other types of possibilities to win the game as well like diplomacy, tech and/or building something marvelous etc.

 

 

6. Multiple options to customize your gaming experience

If you can turn things that you like on and things that you don`t like off, the game will be appealing to many sorts of space 4X fans.

 

 

7. Cool things to find on planets and solar systems

Moo 2 had a number of cool stuff to find on planets ranging from minerals to technology on ancient crashed ships, to native civilizations and stranded leaders, including the Orion system itself. So it would be nice to have the same sort of experiences of discovery  that you had with every new galaxy in Moo 2.

 

 

8. The ability to turn on random events

Like a star going super nova, some sort of phenomenon blocking faster than light travel etc.

 

 

9. No turn limits for your games, unless you want to turn them on

Do not try to micromanage the gaming experience for us.

 

 

10. Online multiplayer option

If the game is good it can be enjoyed online for years to come (and you the developers will be heroes for us), but if the game isn`t good nobody cares about this.

 

 

11. Antarans type of super powerful enemy that you can include in your game and attempt to defeat it, if you want to

I always personally liked that option in Master Of Orion 2.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Mikko_M, 15 June 2015 - 02:20 AM.


anguille_1 #12 Posted 15 June 2015 - 06:38 AM

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Apart from what you guys mention, one of my favorite part of the first MOO is the spying system.  IMHO it is still the best in ANY 4x i've ever played. There was no micromanagement (unlike in MOO2 or MOO3) and the option to target specific planets and research fields is awesome. I always used it to weaken specific planets before invasion or to weaken the economy.



MOO2MOD #13 Posted 15 June 2015 - 03:46 PM

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Yes, agree that MOO1 spying was better implemented than MOO2. You could choose targets. Also, you would not get opponent tech info if you had no spies. In MOO2, you can see all opponents tech without having a single spy!

For the new MOO, I would add that one should not be able to detect Darlok/metamorph spies, or maybe only after researching some defensive tech.

Other things I would like to see improved (I am mostly a MOO2 player and modder):

1. A.I. that can tech what it needs (example: a LOW-G race should never-ever skip Gravity Generator)

2. A.I. does not easily give in to human player demands as it is going to be abused anyway.

3. A.I. that can order ships around more intelligently: ships arrive at location simultaneously.

4. A.I. understands when he is being outmaneuvred by human player on the strategic map.

5. A.I. does not bomb planets that were his own just a few turns ago ("a.i. is destroying own empire by Telepath human player" tactic).

6. In combat, A.I. has more tactical options available than "charge!" or "retreat!".

7. In combat, A.I. knows better the concept of focussed fire.

8. In combat, A.I. does not shoot on vessels that are out of ammo if other vessels are a higher threat.

6,7,8 offcourse both for the a.i. opponent and for the human player that choses to 'AUTO' his battle and sits back to enjoy the spectacle, rather than scream over the faulty decisions that are being made by said Auto.

9. You should not be able to scan a ship without having researched and installed some tech to do that.

10. If you have alliances with all last standing opponents you should win the game and not be forced to break alliances and then go kill them.

11. Smarter way micromanagement: during game, you should be able to turn on or off certain tasks that you want to automate. Like the AUTOBUILD function in MOO2 for buildings, but with better implementation offcourse, coz MOO2 autobuild is pretty weak, it does not know basic prioritization, like Automated Fact. should be built before Deep Core Mines etc. In game beginnings I want to control everything, and as the game develops and the empire grows, I would be less concerned to micromanage new colonies or even what planets to colonize.

12a. When you invent a new building (if this game is going to be MOO2 style in this aspect) there should be an easy way to insert that on top of the build queue in multiple colonies simultaneously.

12b. Ability to create and save some favorite autobuild queues, to use in the next game or to copy to another colony.

12c. Ability to save a few favorite own ships designs, to use for the next game.

13. GNN readers could be more than just news guys. They could be there own race, with certain characteristics. Ref. the excellent work of Niklas Jansson http://androidarts.com/spaceconquest/gamedesign.htm

14. Better control over what types of info you see in the turn summary.

15. Ability to see, like your current spy bonus, your current diplomatic bonus

16. MOO2 had the wildly popular Toxic planet. There could be envisioned a fancy way to Terraform it instead of blast it to pieces with the Stellar Converter. ("Solar Shades", or some other advanced Planetary Shield, combined with an "Atmosphere Renewer II" to eliminate the CO2 and Sulphur from atmosphere)

17. If a planet was radiated and has been Terraformed, when it loses its radiation shield, it should revert back to radiated over a couple of turns.

18. Ensure that a.i. uses al tech that are available - in MOO2 it does not use a Colony Base or Outpost Ships, giving a huge advantage to human player.

19 -- why did i decide to put a number before each item :)

20. Add for Multiplayer especially an ability to save (dump) combat data when it stalls (hangs) and the ability to restore combat data by pressing a key, like for instance ALT+F12.

21. Star Bases should use Torpedoes instead of Missiles when available.

22. The MOO2 fan patch added options like on/off for: wormholes, black holes, nebulae, etc. these map customizations brings even more replayability to the game.

23. If there are going to be custom races: revisit the race pick values after a somewhat longer time, as players will discover OP races, that are not known at game launch.

24. make the game friendly to modders like me :B

 

 


Edited by MOO2MOD, 16 June 2015 - 03:48 PM.


MOO2MOD #14 Posted 16 June 2015 - 03:41 PM

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Above comments are really assuming a MOO2-like game. Offcourse I have nu clue what the reboot would look like in terms of game mechanics. So more in general; if the MOO reboot (MOOR) brings a great Master of Orion Universe, including an A.I. that can make actual decisions and everything game-balance related is highly moddable (or more even, like City Skylines), than you gonna have game that can again last for 2 decades :)

 

edit: the Human Cruiser looks awesome, well done design!


Edited by MOO2MOD, 16 June 2015 - 04:14 PM.


Titanium_Ghost #15 Posted 17 June 2015 - 05:28 PM

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New MOO should be - once played again and again - unique adventure.

Yes, some stuff will be limited, e.g. number of races, or set of all possible technologies, but if there is added a really huge number of pictures of various planets with different life conditions, various plants and animals, various antient objects from some antient races, ... and if a lot of various events can happen in universe among planets, ..etc. ... you would be able to play new MOO many times, but every time your adventure will be very different.

 

Of course, there is a huge potential related to work of graphic artists and designers.

 

And finally as one russian guy said on youtube long time ago ... old MMO2 was great because the algorithm of the game was great and properly tested. In old times graphic could not be so great, so algorithm had to be great.

Today we can have both - algorithm and graphic.

 

Keeping fingers !



Cephir2010 #16 Posted 18 June 2015 - 02:02 PM

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Hi there!

 

Just saw the pictures showing some solar systems. It seems as if they are connectet via some kind of gatetravel routes. This is a major part of things i dont like about most recent 4x games because it resuslts in a galaxy feeling static and unrealistic. In Space you should really be able to approach a solar system from every direction. This was implementet pretty good in MoO2 already. Although you couldnt fly randomly through open space you could reach every solarsystem from wherever you wanted to. To cut things down: I'd really apreciate a travel-system exactly as ist was done in MoO2. Leave out the modern style approaches to that specific part of the game ;-)

 

Nevertheless I'm really looking forward to MoO2015!!



subgenius #17 Posted 19 June 2015 - 09:16 PM

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the option to manualy play the space battles, but with  initiative working.

in the original moo2 the player was always first with all his ships which was lame



Rozjemca35 #18 Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:23 AM

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I want free roam and no freakin starlanes.

MOO2MOD #19 Posted 21 June 2015 - 09:41 PM

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Block Quote

 

but with  initiative working.

in the original moo2 the player was always first with all his ships which was lame

 

Initiative works properly in MOO2 if you have the initiative setting enabled.


Edited by MOO2MOD, 22 June 2015 - 06:48 PM.


torsten76p #20 Posted 24 June 2015 - 08:24 PM

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When I heard sometime ago that wargaming.net got the the MOO instead Stardock I was dissapointed simply because Stardock has a good experience with 4x games and Galactic Civilizations is the best 4x sci-fi game after MOO2 of course. Wargaming doesn't have the experience and the background in this genre so I remain skeptic..
 

One thing I was dissapointed to read if its true.. well I'm not interested at all... 20 solar systems?

Make it 500-600 and make it look like Elite Dangerous.. ok they have 400 billion stars but I would be fine with several hundred. But the universe needs to be beautiful and realistic.

Keep the formula but you have to go BIG! The new GC3 is a 64bit game and has really huge maps you can never colonize all systems.

 

A good interface as the old one where everything is just 1-2 clicks away just upgrade it to today's standards.
 

Definetely custom races and animated for the original ones.


One thing I loved in MOO2 was the terraforming... bring it back and make it even better let me see those barren rocks transforming into beautiful green lush planets.


Let me colonize aquatic planets and build underwater! Let me mine asteroids, gas giants, nebulas..


I don't care much about ship design just lots of standard ones per race and give me the option to load weapons or engines etc. like MOO2.
 

Free roam also necessary,  but use of stargates would be a cool idea travelling to distant stars in a fraction of the normal time.

 

Please no animal aliens or mix-up of earhly creatures, these are ideas of the past childish and stupid, be creative..
 

Last but not least make it moddable! It's very importand to keep a game interesting for years. Like someone said Cities Skylines is moddable and in only few weeks got thousands of mods, the game is a big bang thanks to mods.


 


Edited by torsten76p, 24 June 2015 - 08:50 PM.





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